CHOKE
from Boiling Point #2 1/2, 1989
SLAPSHOT has always been a controversial band. With their hardline stance on straight edge and their seeming advocacy of violence, they have also always been a very outspoken band -- especially their singer, Choke. We caught up with Choke at CBGB's a while back and here's what he had to say:
BP: Just for the record, give us SLAPSHOT'S current line-up.
C: Me on vocals, Jaime ex-SS DECONTROL on bass, Jordan Wood moved from bass to lead guitar, Steve on rhythm guitar and Mark Mackaye on drums.
BP: How did Jaime come into the band and also for the longest time we were hearing that Hank was gonna join your band and play bass and Jordan was going to move to guitar. How come he never joined?
C: Well, first of all, Hank had picked up a bass and was trying to learn. He had never picked up the instrument before. And we kinda wanted a bass player and between going on tour and all of this stuff. We just didn't. When is he going to learn? And Jaime, one day we were outside the Channel after a show and we were just talking about the band and stuff and I said what our future plans are we'd like to get a new bass player and move Jordan to lead guitar and he was like, "Give me a call." So we started practicing.
BP: Is SLAPSHOT becoming more of a full-time thing, instead of just a project?
C: A full-time thing? No. You've got to keep everything in perspective. Everybody has a full-time job. We've got lots more important things to do. Touring is becoming more of a priority mainly because there is more of a demand for us. The new single sold 1000 copies in a week. So I've got a feeling things are starting to really take off and we're going to get big. I don't know how big, but big.
BP: You guys have been straight edge for a long time. Straight edge has grown to encompass a rather broad concept. What is your interpretation?
C: Has it?
BP: Yeah, vegetarianism and stuff like that. People think of it in different ways. People don't necessarily think of it as...
C: Well, I'd say, to most people it's up to themselves. If people want to start throwing vegetarianism into it, well, that's what they can feel and they can say, usually, it's to say, "I'm more SE than you are because I'm vegetarian too." Fuck you, you know what I mean? I don't smoke or drink. I don't do any of that shit. To me that's really all it is. Some people abstain from sex too. I'm not a fucking monk. You know what I mean? I'm not a fucking monk. I'm straight as far as everything that really matters goes. I don't think that eating meat makes me less straight edge. What it was meant to be, is you have a edge over someone who drinks or does drugs. They're gonna be fucked up and you're gonna be straight. Therefore you have an edge over him, in whatever you do. I think that's what it basically really means to me and what I think it should mean to everybody.
BP: What is this whole "Darkside to straight edge" about? Do you guys really have a "drink you die" mentality?
C: Yeah. The whole darkside was... You know there's all these fuckin' little kids running nowadays, "Positive Youth! If you don't drink that's alright," you know, "you're an alright guy too." The way I see it and the way I used to see it: I don't have any friends who drink. I couldn't have if they drink. I have acquaintances that drink. I don't have any friends that do. And that's kinda how I see it. I know a lot of people that drink, everybody does, but I think the darkside is "No it is not ok." We don't have a nice attitude about it. And that's mainly the whole darkside... I don't know where that got started really, but I think that's basically what it means. We are not nice about SE. We're like, "Fuck you if you're not SE! Get the fuck out of here."
BP: In a lot of fanzine interviews you seem to make a lot of remarks that promote violence. The band has a very physical presentation. How do you really feel about the "violence in the scene issue?"
C: I don't do anything to stop it. A lot of bands, when a fight breaks out on the dance floor, will stop playing. "Hey, come on! Break it up" and all this shit. I'm not out there to be a fuckin' babysitter. And club owners have to take the initiative. They blame it on the bands far too often. If they can't handle their own crowds then there is going to be fights and there's going to be problems. I joke about it a lot. The difference between me and other bands is they try to break up the fights, we want to see who wins. Fights happen a lot at our shows. In fact, this is one of the few shows that there hasn't been shit. Down in Florida I got hit with a good fuckin' right hand. It was a good hit too. It wasn't much of a fight. I got fed up with this fuckhead and I aimed low and he... got me good. No big deal. It's water under the bridge. I don't give a fuck. Next time it might be different when we go down there. I might get him. I just have to be prepared. I thought after I took a swing, he was just gonna stand down there but he didn't.
BP: What about white power shit that has become closely related to skinheads?
C: I'd rather not get into that because it really doesn't have anything to do with SLAPSHOT. My personal opinions on the matter have nothing to do with the band. I wouldn't say that I'm white power. I wouldn't say I'm a skinhead but...
BP: What was the deal with that LAST RIGHTS cover?
C: Oh, the nazi?
BP: Yeah.
C: Curtis (TAANG!) had 100 singles and he said, "Choke, I want to make a limited edition cover for these 100 singles..." So I did it. It was a take off of the NEGATIVE FX. We had a demo tape and on the outside of the box we wrote all the same credits and Curtis just said "make something up" so I went home and whipped it up in an evening and said "Here you go" and he loved it.
BP: Let's talk a little about Boston. The scene has changed a lot from the early 80's hasn't it?
C: Oh yeah!
BP: What are the new kids like?
C: Not as with it, really. I'd have to say they're not quite as with it. Back then there was only a small group, which we called the crew. There were 12 or 13 of us who were close then there were all the fringers. It was a big scene, but now, shit we haven't played in Boston since last September, so I really wouldn't know what's been going on recently. The last few shows there's been a lot less people but I think it is because there hasn't been any really good bands around. A lot less uniified. A lot less of, like, a main group. There's lots of little groups. There's a lot of friends that are with everybody and there's the "Old Guard" that still goes to shows, but don't really participate. I don't feel too old to go out on the dance floor and mess it up. It depends on the band. There isn't a band out there that I really get into.
BP: Is Boston still kind of a straight edge town or is it getting away from that?
C: I'd say that there are bigger scenes for that now. That whole positive youth thing, I think, is mainly a NEW YORK phenomenon and in Reno and the scenes like that. It depends on the bands in Boston that are positive youth kind of bands. It's us and WRECKING CREW right now. Neither of us is positive youth. The positive youth kids like us cause we're straight edge, but I wouldn't really say we're into that movement so much. I think that New York has probably the largest group of that. Mainly because of bands like YOUTH OF TODAY, BOLD and TOKEN ENTRY. I don't know how straight edge they are, but there is a lot of that kind of thing.
BP: From the scenes that you've travelled to and played at, how would you compare them to Boston?
C: We played Salt Lake City, I'd say it was really nice. They had a lot of young kids and they were really into it. That was a great town. San Francisco sucked the big one. It really did. All they have is joke bands it seems. I mean I really didn't get to see too many of the really good bands, but they got bands like STICKY AFTERWARDS. I was talking to Tim Yohannan (MRR) and I was telling him "You've got nothing but a bunch of Romper Room Rejects here." This was in the MRR hall. He wasn't really offended by it, he laughed. He knew that we didn't really know how to handle his crowd. Fuckin' goofy kids! It was like a circus and they had a christmas tree on stage. I was like, "What the fuck is this?!" Now there is a band called the ROMPER ROOM REJECTS. I kinda like that, when I piss people off enough to form a band called something I called them.
BP: New York and California are exploding with new up and coming bands, why do you think the same isn't happening in Boston?
C: I think motivation. In the early 80's there was a fuckin' million bands all young kids, they were all quality. That's the main thing. There are so many bands forming -- they fuckin' all sound the fuckin' same! They listen to YOUTH OF TODAY 30,000 times and that's what they think great Hardcore is. You know, they just get up there and scream their heads off and they play triple speed thrash. No one can understand what the fuck is going on. No one can sing along really, until the "mosh" part comes along and then everyone goes, "Oh, a slow part that I can move to" and then it goes into a fast part and everybody stops and stands again. I'm not into that. I want people going all the fuckin' time! I want a killer show. Boston right now... I think the motivation. There's WRECKING CREW, but even those guys in WRECKING CREW seem to be older. They've been around for a long time. There aren't any new bands. I think it's because a lot of the scene is old and the kids just aren't into it. Even the bands the kids form in Boston are triple speed thrash. Nothing quality, nothing really good. That's fine, if they want to come out and play triple speed thrash and that's what they like then fine. But it's not what I like -- it's just my personal opinion. I've heard it a 1000 times before. I played it in 1982 in NEGATIVE FX. Shit it's been done a million times before. They're saying the same things we did a long time ago. It's nothing new, try something original if you're gonna form a band. Try to find your own influence or try something new. Don't try to imitate every band you like.
BP: How would you compare a NEGATIVE FX show to a SLAPSHOT show?
C: A lot of people think NEGATIVE FX was all me. Richie and Pat weren't really as adept at playing instruments as these guys are. They more or less stood there while I fuckin' jogged back and forth across the stage screaming my head off. I think that's mainly the difference between... It's more intense (now) I can step back and let those three come up there and fuckin' do their thing and when it's my turn to sing again, I take the stage again. I get more of a chance to rest.
BP: In what way have you changed as an individual since you first started hanging out?
C: I haven't.
BP: You haven't at all?
C: I don't think so. I think I'm the same fuckhead I was 6 or 7 years ago. I don't think I've changed at all.
BP: In the early BOSTON CREW days, were the shows really like all the stories say? Y'know, slappin' beers out of people's hands...
C: The slappin' beers out of people's hands was blown a little out of proportion. We did it a couple of times, but the rumours... we love to spread the rumours about it. Because way back then we were an up and coming scene. All the focus was on DC and LA, that's all the focus of the country, as far as Hardcore goes. So we wanted to make a name for ourselves. And we made a name for ourselves by coming down to NY with SS DECONTROL and about 12 of our friends and fuckin' trashin' A7 and saying "No NYers on the dance floor. Alright, ready!" Really, intimidation was our whole thing and we went down to DC. We expected the greatest scene we had ever heard of, MINOR THREAT, SOA... legends of Hardcore! We went down and kicked their butts, but we got along with them. First, SS DECONTROL played and nobody moved. And Ian and Sab, who were pretty much the leaders of the scene, were really pissed off at their own scene. Because an out of town band, a good out of town band, came down and they (DC) didn't show them what DC was about. They didn't show us what they could do. The second time they played down there it was a much better show. It was a smaller place. A lot of the old stories are true and we just inflated them because back then we were a strugglin' scene and we had to make a name for ourselves and we did.
BP: I heard you guys used to make pyrimids in the pit and other crazy shit like that?
C: No, we pig piled. We would pick people and go, "Go get him!" and jump all over him.
BP: There isn't much of a Boston-NY competition anymore.
C: Oh, I think there is, there always will be. Competition is, I think, a friendly rivalry. I said in the PLAIN TRUTH that I think NY is a little too sensitive about their position. Being #1 or #2. And if you say anything about NYC it's like, "Fuck you, we'll kill you the next time you came down!" If you're #1 then you shouldn't be upset about that kind of shit. I think that's how we are, Boston. We know we're the best so we don't get upset if fuckin' shit is said about Boston. No big deal. I like it, it's good for the scene. It's good for all the scenes involved. Rivalries have always been a part of it.
BP: This is a good question for both of you (Choke and Jaime). Tell us an old story about the Boston-NY rivalry.
J: UK SUBS.
C: Oh yeah! UK SUBS were playing at the Peppermint Lounge. Well, we all got together and decided we were gonna see the UK SUBS and fuckin' trash NY.
J: About 13 or 14 of us.
C: And we showed up. Everyone was like "Uh oh, they're fuckin' here" and we said, "No New Yorkers on the fuckin' floor!" It was after that show that NY finally decided they hated Boston. They hated us after that show.
J: Then Al fucked his leg up.
C: Yeah, Al fucked his leg up that night. We had a ball, said "Fuck you!" to the bouncers...
J: Jumpin' off balconies and shit.
C: Nobody could do a fuckin' thing about it. That's a good story about NY and Boston, from our point of view anyway.
BP: What do you think about the judgementality that goes on in the scene? Like holding things against other people for the way they dress or the way they think...
C: I hold a lot of grudges against the way people look or the way they think. Right now, I'm on a big anti-freak thing. I would like to make hardcore a thing that I could take my mother to and not be embarrassed. It's about time these fuckin' kids with triple mohawks and dyed orange hair fuckin' got their shit together, grew up and fuckin' got a job and became human beings. That song "Chameleon" is about somebody like that. Every trend that comes by... next week he wants to be a skinhead (and) he's a skinhead. Three weeks later he's into the EXPLOITED (and) he grows his hair in and gets a mokawk. Fuckin' just be a human being! Quit this fuckin' freak shit! It's tired. I'm on that kick right now. But if people want to do it, that's what they want to do. I'm not gonna tell them what to do. I'd like to suggest that they don't look like an idiot, but if they do well... alright.
BP: Tell us about some of your new songs, what are they about?
C: Well, same thing as the first record -- personal politics, things that I see that kinda bother me. We tried a kind of newer approach. Instead of going out with "kill, kill, kill" we try to make it a little more like... y'know we're nice guys, but we're not dead serious about everything. We can have fun occasionally and some of the songs... like "Step on It" is about bein' on the road and the shit that happens. "Hang Up Your Boots" is about what I've been talkin' about. These kids don't know what the fuck they're doing, they're not saying anything new. Same old stuff basically.
BP: What goes into the writing of a SLAPSHOT song? Tell us how a song usually gets written from start to finish.
C: What I usually do is I think of a title. And then I go... like "Hang Up Your Boots" (he starts harmonizing and singing). I just think up a title and then the music will come once I get the title of a singing part. From there I write the rest of it. That's basically how it's done.
BP: I hear you graduated from Emerson College. I (Dennis) go there.
C: Oh, do you? I got a BFA in film. You're in the film dept.?
BP:Yeah, is it true that you once tried to get a LAST RIGHTS show in one of the dorms?
C: We did a NEGATIVE FX show in one of the dorms. Upstairs in one of the lounges. We set it up with the C.O.'s and DOUBLE O played. DOUBLE O and GI were playing the next day in Boston; we just set up and played.
BP: Do you think too many kids into hardcore today are apathetic, complacent and don't help out or contribute to their scene?
C: Yes. A lot of kids are along for the ride. Too many. I don't think they don't appreciate it, but no... actually I don't really think they appreciate what they've got, and what they can accomplish with it or what they can make out of it. A lot of times, I think, the kids throw it away by being stupid and acting stupid at their own shows and getting shows and halls shut down.
(Well, that's it. The interview was cut a little short because Choke's ride was about to leave without him)
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