B.G.K.
Interview from Maximumrocknroll #8, September 1983
B.G.K.
Tony-bass, vocals
Rene-vocals
Marcel-drums
Steve-guitar
Wouter-manager
Ruth- Are there a lot of bands in Holland?
Tony- Yeah, a lot.
Ruth- Are many of them doing the same things you are?
Marcel- Most of them are not recording. They really don't know how to do it. So we say to these people, "If you want to make a record, contact us. We will show you how. Maybe we can lend you the money".
Wouter- Most bands find it too risky to bring out their own records because they can lose a lot of money if it doesn't sell.
Tony- Well, there are many groups over here who put out their own stuff and release them at cost price. It's all very independent. There's no major label. All those bands are trying to get more bands to do their own stuff and not wait till a label "discovers you". You can do what you want. Besides, labels mostly rip you off anyway.
Marcel- I don't think they do. I think we've found a better way -- this independent thing. I think it is far better. We really don't know too much about Finland, but England and the U.S. are all labels. Records are unfortunately expensive. They aren't being sold at low prices.
Tony- There's a whole new wave of hundreds of punk bands that have started playing very fast. The EX, etc., were playing punk at first. Now they have evolved into different musical styles. There's poeple who are more into that music and all the other punks are into very fast stuff. But the fact is that the EX and other groups are doing about the same as we are. Their music is different than ours, but it doesn't make any difference.
Ruth- So it doesn't matter what the music is, what you're saying?
Tony- Yep, that's very important. There's some bands we don't want to play with. Bands with very racist ideas and they always fuck up their gigs with fights and stuff. And if we know that a band has very right-wing followers and they don't do anything about it -- well OK -- we're not gonna play with them.
Wouter- There are bands that make other sorts of music than we do, but the ideas are good. Then we want to play with them.
Marcel- I don't think that Dutch bands care any more about ideas than they do in America. It's just the group of people you've met. I don't think that most of the punks are really interested in lyrics. Maybe some of them don't understand them.
Rene- But the English bands are more accepted than Dutch bands.
Tony- If you have a show with a foreign band all the people are dancing like crazy. The Dutch bands supporting the foreign bands are much better than the foreign band in my opinion but then a British bands comes on and everyone goes -- aaaaaagh.
Ruth- Holland has its own set of problems. What are Dutch punks thinking about?
Marcel- I think that about the same time there were a lot of squatters there were a lot of bands and punks around. I don't know if it's really a link but--
Tony- A lot of bands started to sing about the squatter problem and stuff.
Ruth- Is squatting an important issue to you?
All- Yeah.
Tony- There's a squat on the other side of the street here and there's a lot of anarchists and punks who live there. It's going to be evicted soon because the city council wants to have a Holiday Inn hotel, while there is already a very big, expensive hotel near. It's just to give the city more of a reputation of welcoming tourists and money. And about 120 people will be homeless. Meanwhile there's a lot of things happening in this squat. There's a store, an art gallery, a restaurant, a bar, etc. So many things you could do there, so much space. But since the big money is involved they are going to evict it very soon.
Ruth- Are squatters the same as punks?
Ingrid- Squatters are punks and punks are squatters.
Marcel- According to the news. But not all of them.
Tony- If there are riots, you always see guys with mohawks and stuff throwing bricks and then on a news flash you see punks breaking windows with bricks.
Ruth- What do you call the government here?
Marcel- Religious. So-called liberals and conservatives.
Wouter- Christian Democrats.
Ruth- A democracy?
Marcel- Well, we won't call it a democracy.
Ruth- You have a very good social system.
Marcel- No -- They are breaking it down.
Ruth- But you're all getting money from the state.
Wouter- It is much better than in the States.
Tony- But they are cutting down and the rich people get even more money.
Marcel- It's not good enough. Even in the old days you had a lot of people who haven't enough to live on while others have plenty. They're even cutting lower incomes more. Really fast.
Ruth- I get the impression that the government doesn't expect you to work.
Wouter- There is no work.
Marcel- They can't expect us to work because we have very high unemployment rates. The country doesn't expect us to work. Sure, they want us to work. Once there was a plan that people under 21, who are unemployed, will cut trees...
Rene- To work for dole money. That was the idea. I'm afraid it is more difficult for punks.
Ruth- There are a lot of clubs here who get money from the government.
Wouter- There's a lot of them that get money from the state to keep the kids off the street or something. The people who work in some places get their income from the state but for the rest, mostly they have to do things for themselves.
Tony- Still, that money is often being spent in the wrong way, like the Paradiso Club. They will use the punk bands as an excuse to have a coke party.
Ruth- The Paradiso is getting money from the state?
Tony- Yeah. Huge amounts of money. And they're spending it on their friend's bands pop groups and stuff.
Rene- When we play The Paradiso we want a lot of money.
Marcel- Because they give a lot of money to all other kids of bands.
Wouter- Normally, if we play somewhere and we say OK we want to play but the ticket prices must be low otherwise we won't play.
Ruth- Can bands make a living doing this?
?- No.
Marcel- Because there's no record companies, you don't get known, you don't get radio airplay. The thing is that this is the best way because if you depend for your living on this, you have to make concessions to all kinds of bullshit.
Wouter- You have to do what people expect.
Marcel- I want to do it completely on my own terms if possible.
Ruth- If you're putting out your records at cost price, you can't make a living.
Marcel- We make a thousand records and sell 700 of them. Then the costs are gone and the rest is for us.
Ruth- What is out on your label?
Tony- Our record (B.G.K.- Jonestown Aloha), and the compilation record with eight bands. (Als Je Haar Maar Goed Zit Nr. 2) It's all Dutch bands, hardcore. But we want to work together with other Dutch bands. A lot of other bands, they see other bands as competition. They don't want to work together.
Ruth- What do you think of American bands?
Tony- Some of them are good. Others...? Generally I think American bands are lots better, both musically and in dealing with them. American bands started to realize that not all the bands from England sound good.
Wouter- But American records are very expensive here for us to buy.
Marcel- I really don't get everything because it's so expensive. Gigs and records. It doesn't fit with the ideas they have in my opinion. It's stupid to be concerned about the poor and let them pay $10 to go to a gig.
Tony- As bands it is their responsibility. For example, bands who are singing about war and a fight breaks out at a show and they will just continue to play. That's what was so great about the MDC concert here. This guy takes a chain and starts swinging it and the singer starts "Hey, who are you guys? You come here to fight? Better leave." That's what he said. It's great.
Rene- Everyone looked at the guy and he didn't know what to do. So he walked out.
Tony- A band like the EXPLOITED sing about war and armies. How can they just let their audience beat up each other? And when it gets a little rough, they're off stage.
Wouter- So many of the English bands are so stupid. They really are.
Marcel- Not all of them.
Wouter- They go in the studio for a month. They make a good record -- so great, and you see them live and they are so bad. They're mostly drunk when they are on stage.
Marcel- They have no respect for the people who came to see them. If people came to see us, it shows their interest, it's nice. So I show some respect for them by not playing drunk.
Tony- Also, there should be more contact with American bands, People should start organizing tours for each other on a very independent basis so there aren't any agencies. It's just the bands that do this for each other. Set up a tour to get enough money.
Tony- They can stay here and be at our places. We can set up the gigs and they can play with any Dutch band they like. I think the big advantage of this is that you're not being ripped off and there's no asshole you don't know, that doesn't know anything about the music just making money.
Wouter- Then you're going to play in the really good punk clubs.
Ruth- Isn't it just as important that people in America start thinkg about doing the same?
Tony- Yeah -- well, I don't know but maybe people in America could set up tours for Dutch bands. You could reach a lot of people then.
Ruth- How do people get ahold of you?
Tony- Write to Vogelspin Records. We'd like to set up some bands here.
Marcel- I wonder if they'd be willing to not make much money though. What I see of American bands is that they're making money at it.
Tony- Not MDC.
Marcel- No not MDC, but DEAD KENNEDYS and BLACK FLAG.
Wouter- But those gigs are being organized by agencies. They make a lot of money at them. If you do it our way you play in other places.
Ruth- Any last comments?
Tony- People should get more involved getting things done, whether it's your own store or helping people out. Making it work.
Wouter- That's what punk is -- doing things yourself.
Ruth- But here you can count on the government.
Wouter- But we don't really get anything from it. What the government gives to these punk clubs -- they're not really punk clubs. Punk bands can play there but the money they get is for the people who work there. And those people have some sort of schooling.
Ingrid- Social workers.
Ruth- How do you suggest people do things?
Wouter- Start a band or a real punk club that doesn't get money from the state. Or something else. There's a lot to do.
Tony- Maybe you can't change the whole structure but you can make it more pleasant. Get aware of what's happening yourself. Some things are so easy to see like the connections between the big money and you should start questioning. There is also the fact that when there is a Dutch band and people say "Dutch band? I don't even know where Holland is. I'm not interested." And when it's a band from England everybody goes -- Yeeeeaaaahhhh. It's the same with American bands that come over here. The people here aren't interested in that. I think that many Dutch bands are interesting and worth seeing.
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