THE CLITBOYS
Michael K. and the Golden Rule:
WE DON'T PLAY THEIR GAME
A Conversation with the Clitboys
By Vic Bondi
from Maximum Rock'n'Roll
Michael K - Vocals
Mike - Guitar
Donny - Drums
The CLITBOYS are unique in that they stepped almost full born into controversy. From their earliest gigs to their new record (We Don't Play Their Game) they have had to deal with a flurry of criticism, from the political lyrics of the songs to the imitative nature of their thrash. The band has become one of the centers of division between "political" punks and "non-political" punks. That such a storm of disagreement should surround such a new and relatively obscure band is no small reflection on their goals. From the beginning, the band has consciously addressed pressing issues, from homophobia to conformity; sometimes, as their critics have said, in a manner heard many times before. If the CLITBOYS sometimes seem unoriginal in their approach to their music, it's possibly a reflection of lead singer and bassist Michael K.'s character. He is an enigmatic performer, whose ambition, more often than not, exceeds his grasp; and though somewhat confusing, his arguments never betray the slightest insincerity. What follows is a recent conversation with him on the subject of his music and his methods.
MRR: You guys just got done with your tour; and you went all over the East Coast and...
MK: And everywhere in between...
MRR: And reflections on it...
MK: Reflections? I enjoyed it a lot. It wasn't a financial boon, it wasn't really... we weren't pleasantly surprised by any amazing things. We had two really good shows - some bad ones, but it was a good opportunity to go to different cities and show them what we're about, get our record out.
MRR: Sometimes you've been known to go in front of a crowd and ask them to speak their piece before you play. Did you do that anywhere on this tour?
MK: Seldom. Simply because I was shook up the first couple of days by mindless idiots who just scream, "Shut up and play," and people who were really anti-communication. That happened our first couple of gigs, and I guess I was a bit frustrated.
MRR: You would consider someone shouting "shut up and play" while you're trying to talk from the stage anti-communication?
MK: Yes. Because our songs, each one of them, when we write them I try to think, "What am I saying good, what am I getting at, am I helping the world in any way, am I whining, and what sort of effect am I having? What sort of ideas am I getting across?" And you know - let's face it - there's not always the best sound systems, we play very fast, and a lot of what we get across isn't easily understood. Since I really care about the ideals and convictions in our songs, it seems natural to want to communicate those real strong feelings either before the song, during the song, or before the show. It's real important to have this communication. Punk rock or hardcore, like we say in "Slogan Boy," is a lot more than dressing up and throwing around tired clichés. It's real important to think about ideas and communicate. Well, our music is intensely emotional, and built upon real... a lot of frustration, bitterness, but also hope and happiness. So, although it's built upon these deep emotions, our songs are a lot more than "I hate, I love, I'm sad." It goes beyond that, in that... we're not a political band in the sense that we're dealing with capitalism vs. communism, anarchy vs. organized government, but there is an inherent politicism in our songs in that we take stands on issues. I think that it's right there, since we do take stands on issues, there's intellectualism right there, and we don't take them and just say, "I feel this way just because," it's rather, "I feel this way because of this, this, this, and this," which intellectually adds up to...
MRR: ...a gutteral scream.
MK: ...a rational idea expressed with intense emotion. It's very much like looking at a song like (AOF's) "What We Want is Free". That song is built with an extended metaphor laying down some basic ideas to get to your point. However, you're not delivering them in a monotone spoken voice, talking over music in the background - your whole heart and soul is into it. Basically, we look at it as though we can be intellectual and we can have very important ideas, but also have a whole lot of sincerity about it.
MRR: Well, I'm not doubting that. I'm just saying that if you're comparing what you're doing to what I'm doing, or that "What We Want is Free" is similar in methodology to what you're trying to pursue, the difference is - I agree with you, it's intellectual and emotional and political all in one shell - but the thing is, that I don't step out and explain myself. I feel like the music is enough for people ot go on. To a certain extent, going to people before a song and saying, "This is what I mean by this song," you limit their ability to interpret it to their own satisfaction.
MK: I see what you're saying, but... in none of our introductions do we really say that. We might...
Mike: ...touch on a topic. Talk about what the ideas is, and not just summerize the song. Say with "Gay's OK," we'll just talk about the issue of homophobia, and people picking on gays. We're not gonna say, "I mean this and this." We'll just talk about putting down gays, they're a minority just like Blacks or whatever. It's just touching on it, not explaining what the song's about.
MK: It's like, "Here's an issue, here are some ways of looking at it, and therefore this is the song."
MRR: This is the issue that inspired my emotional reaction to it.
MK: Right. Things exist, there are things around us, things exist and I feel a certain way about them, and this song shows my response. By intellectualism, I mean lyrically; we want to try to get across more than a gutteral scream in every song. It's ok to write personal lyrics, and it's ok to write about your feelings, however, I find it important to add - if not a universality to it - at least a real relevance to our songs. So when I say intellectually, I mean a lyrical statement that needs to be thought about... either by sitting down and looking at the lyric sheet, or thinking about what we say before our songs... Questioning even... I wouldn't mind so much if people said, "Hey, that's bullshit, I disagree with you about that, and this is why." That's why we give them the opportunity to communicate with the microphone. But a response such as "Just shut up and play" is...
MRR: Ok, on the other hand, I would reiterate that speaking on both an intellectual and emotional level, that what you're doing is really unnecessary - it's superfluous. A good band, both the intellectualism and the emotionalism of the music are going to come through. You say you want it to be more than a gutteral scream, then already you're saying to me that you consider your music to be in general form, a gutteral scream. It would seem to me that you've defeated your whole purpose. A lot of people would say that it's the mark of a good craftsman that if your songs are good and well-written and well-pointed, and you're a good musician and a good performer, you don't need to expound on the points you're trying to make in your songs.
MK: I agree. That's on one level though. Our songs are a mixture of emotionalism and intellectualism. Agreed, if the performer is such as you describe, his emotionalism should be quite clear, and that should be very tangible, you can feel what he's getting across. The intellectualism is what I'm talking about. When I go out into the crowd and talk in a communicative way, or talk before songs, I'm not talking about what I feel and my emotions - that comes out in the songs, it's pretty plain to see... but the intellectualism is hard to grasp, going by at one hundred miles an hour.
MRR: What are you talking about when you say "intellectualism in music?" What would that specifically be? A lot of people would say intellectualism is music in Eno; or adding modulated sevenths to drone patterns based on sixteenth century Indian religious chants. Why did you feel such a pregnant need to write a song called "Gay's OK"?
MK: Basically, for two reasons. One of my close blood relatives is a homosexual, and a former girlfriend of mine, I tragically found out, was also. My first response was to put on a real convenient defense mechanism and say, "Fucking gays, fucking faggots," and then after the outburst of insecurity passed, I saw it... I saw a lot of homophobia around me, and a lot of blind persecution. It seemed to me a beautiful irony in punks, of all people, being so openly anti-gay. Here I saw cases, both minorities, both drastically different than the mainstream of society, and both generally viewed poorly by the media. The main link was that they had made a choice somewhere along the line of preference; in the punks' case, a kind of music they want to listen to, a way of life they want to live, a way they want to dress; in gays' case, a sexual preference. Here were these two cases that had a very strong link together, and there was this real irony that one would look at the other as this real terrible sick thing. Basically, I'm real anti-organized religion, and the hypocritical morality that follows organized religion. The only real rationalization I could find for the persecution of gays came out of organized religion - the Bible says it's bad. Otherwise, I couldn't see a reason why these people were so condemned. The song doesn't say, "Go gay." It doesn't say, "Try out homosexuality." It says, "Leave them be." Let them live their lives with their preference, just as any minority should have the right to be themselves. The three members of our band are hetrosexual, so it's not really from personal experience.
MRR: You have other songs that deal with oppressed minorities. Do you identify with minorities in a certain way? Do you identify yourself as a member of the minority of people called punks? What do you think would be the distinguishing features between a punk and a straight individual?
MK: Well, I can't really say, because I don't really identify myself as a punk. I can't. I've become disillusioned with punk as a label; I'm not really comfortable with that label. I see too much hypocrisy. Too much hate, and not enough love. Basically, the ways I can identify with those repressed minorities is simply - not that I'm a repressed minority - in a more existential sense, I am a stranger. I feel outside of society; I don't feel secure and warm within a group. I feel on the outside. So I can relate to being on the outside of the mainstream.
MRR: But there's a difference between being alienated and being an oppressed minority. The thing you're describing - feeling like you're on the outside, is that alienation or oppression?
MK: I feel more alienated than oppressed. However, in times of self-pity, sometimes I feel that I'm oppressed by the world. The world's made me unhappy, the world's made me desperate. But that's only in piteous times.
MRR: I mean the world... that's a lot. Of course, if you feel that way, you've got a lot of subject matter to work off of.
MK: But basically, we're really, really trying to work for more positive thematic ideas. LIke our song "No Such Thing." I'm really tired of listening to bands over and over about hating this and hating that. The inevitable question I ask is, "So what?" I want to see something good to happen, and I don't just want to struggle through life in unhappiness, and whine and complain and cry and be unhappy. I want something good to end up out of my life.
MRR: How do you see that reflected in your music?
MK: Like "No Such Thing" says, "I want to have high ideals," and I want to love and I want to care and it's important; one person can be full of wonderful emotions and beauty. It's very easily squelched out amongst... it's like a flower in an industrial area, and all around is concrete and smog. It's very easy for that flower to die. And so, in the music it's almost a plea for a higher standard of person, a more caring person, a more honest person, a more loving person, a more critical thinking person, a more objective...
MRR: Would you think that that's basically the gist of your music, more like a plea, or do you really think your type of music can influence people to be more that type of person?
MK: I'm not out to influence. I mean, I'm not out to change - I am out to influence, but people have got to come to that by themselves. It's just that these are some of my deepest emotions, and I would hope that these emotions are within everybody, somewhere. Hopefully, they will come out in each individual in their own small way and work for a better life. That doesn't mean overthrowing the government, and that doesn't mean killing authority. To me, what it means is, in their everyday life, just trying to take a moment and think, "How could I be a better person to myself and others?"
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