DAVE SMALLEY
This is not an ALL interview. Dave Smalley fronted two of the best hardcore bands ever, DYS and DAG NASTY. Over the years his words have had an impact on many. We got a chance to talk with him some time ago when he had just finished a set with ALL. In DYS, Dave Smalley set high standards -- standards which he still lives up to (unlike a lot of the "old school"). We thought it would be interesting to find out his current views about the hardcore scene as it is today and his feelings and memories of how it was in the past. Fortunately, Dave agreed to satisfy our curiousity about that past.
BP: Describe the feeling back in Boston in the early 80's. What were the shows like...?
DS: O.K. I just wrote a book about that. Well, I didn't just write it. Actually, I wrote it in 1985, but it's going to be published probably. It's still under discussion, but the guys who publish Henry Rollins' books, they've said they want to publish it and they're going over it now and talking about it with me. Hopefully it will be coming out. A lot of it is about DYS and Boston and growing up with the hardcore scene. But anyway, that's not going to be out for a long time. Early Boston, for me, it was the most special thing in the world. It's in my heart and in my soul. I was there right from the beginning of it. I was a roadie for SSD and then our band formed. It was the best scene in the country, I think, and we were all straight edge and it was pretty cool.
BP: How did DYS get together? There's a story about a flyer. You put up a flyer in Newbury Comics (a record, comic book store in Boston). It said that you had all this equipment...
DS: Yeah, I put up a flyer and it said "Exp. singer with drummer and full equipment wants to start a hardcore band." That was a lie because I had a guy who said he would drum, but he had never drummed before and he ended up playing bass in a band called the LANDLORDS. Anyway, he was just a friend from school and he was into the concept of being in a band, but he couldn't drum to save his life. Just really bad. So we did that and Jonathan, he was our bass player, answered and he said he had a guitarist friend who was real into it and that they had a whole bunch of equipment. And we got to Media Workshop, which is where there was a lot of the early shows and none of us had anything we said we did. It was because all of us were lying. The guitarist was like a total drug addict and lasted about two shows or something. That's how it started. It started out pretty funny.
BP: You're originally from D.C., aren't you?
DS: Yeah, well, I'm sort of from all over. I grew up in Virginia, like elementary school, and then I lived in France for two years in junior high, and then in high school I went to school in Virginia. That's where I started getting in hardcore, TEEN IDLES and stuff like that. Then I went to school in Boston and I lived there for five or six years.
BP: Were you part of the scene down in DC at all or...
DS: I was the kind of kid who would go and you'd see me at every show. And I was totally into punk. I had spiked hair and a dog collar around my neck... but, I didn't know anybody. I wasn't like an inner member of the scene. So I would just go and check out the band and be into it and I'd bring my preppy girlfriend. It was really funny cause then when I joined DAG NASTY and everyone was like, "Dave's from DC", and it was like, "Shit, you guys never knew me before, why are you saying I'm from DC?" I like DC and I did see a lot of shows there, but Boston is where my scene is from.
BP: [question?]
DS: The early kids. There weren't very many of us. SSD's second show was at the Rat and there was like eight people there. We started slamming and the bouncers beat the shit out of us. I still have a scar from seven stitches in my head. The Boston Crew, we were the crew. We were like brothers, like a family kind of thing. Just like SSD and DYS...
BP: When and why did the Boston Crew go their separage ways?
DS: First of all, more and more kids started getting into it. It started to become like a peer thing. "Are you in the crew? Were you originally in the crew in 1980?" Sorta bogus. It's not like the crew doesn't exist (anymore). It still does. If you go to a show on a Sunday you'll see Jaime and Choke and Jonathan and Al and everybody will be there. And that's the original Boston Crew. But, we don't walk around calling ourselves the "Boston Crew" anymore.
BP: Are you guys still friends?
DS: Everybody's still friends.
BP: In the song, "Escape"...
DS: Wow! This is serious detail! Go ahead.
BP: What did you sing backwards in that song?
DS: You know the beginning part? The "Lady of the Lake" thing?
BP: Yeah.
DS: Which is from Monty Python... It was five in the morning and we didn't have anymore time or money left to mix. And we were just having fun with it so we just did that backwards.
BP: I was trying to figure that out for the longest time.
DS: We were hoping some mothers would get upset and try to ban our record or something.
BP: On the lyric sheet of "Brotherhood" there's lyrics to a song that is not on the album. What was that song? Is that just something you scrapped or...
DS: No. We did it and it just never got recorded. It was a good song. The words are pretty much my favorite words that I wrote in that band.
BP: Yeah, they're really good.
DS: That's why I put them on there. I wanted them to be on there, but we just didn't have it recorded.
BP: What are your thoughts about the old rivalry between NY and Boston?
DS: Well, it doesn't really exist anymore because now everyone in NY is straight edge. It's kind of weird. They (NY) didn't like us because we were straight edge and we'd come for SSD or DYS shows and pile up in a van -- like fifty of us! We wore these things called skull caps. We were all bald and we'd cut off the sleeves of our t-shirts and put one of them around our heads like a Hare Krishna or something. They didn't like us so we'd get in fights all the time. We'd fight at a show and everyone would come and there would be fights the whole time. It was kind of funny. It was like a ritual -- "O.K., we're going to NY. Let's get into a fight!" It was kind of stupid, but a lot of it was based on the drinking. We were real militant about (straight edge).
BP: Where'd you get the name DYS?
DS: Jonathan thought of it actually. It's the Department of Youth Services, which in Massachusetts is where they lock up all the juvenile delinquents there. It's really bad. They don't run it properly and teenage girls get raped and stuff. It's like a nightmare. It's like a prison, only it's kids. It's real bad. The "youth" thing was in there which we wanted.
BP: Why did all the Boston hardcore bands turn metal?
DS: We always like... like AC/DC is still on e of my favorite bands. Everyone just always liked (metal). We all sort of were growing up with KISS and stuff like that. I had every KISS record in seventh grade and stuff. We just all liked it and as we grew better on our instruments, (which) I think is a big part of it. Everyone started getting better at their instruments and they were able to play beats for the first time. And I was able to sing instead of just screaming. So it was kind of a growing up thing, I guess.
BP: Are you still straight edge?
DS: Yeah. I always will be.
BP: How do you feel about all the straight edge kids today?
DS: I'm totally into it. I'm real into everyone being straight edge because... I mean, I wasn't doing it to be a "straight edge star" or whatever. I was doing it because I wanted to think and be clear headed and make the world a better place. I like seeing it. The only thing is it seems like in some places it's getting to be a peer pressure thing which is exactly what is wasn't supposed to be. But as long as you're thinking about it -- if it makes kids think and care.
BP: I think it's cool that you still wear X's. A lot of the older people... they may still be straight edge, but they don't really wear X's anymore.
DS: Yeah, I just sort of do it by instinct.
BP: Choke was like, "That shit (ink) gets into your bloodstream and gives you blood poisoning."
DS: Choke knows better because he's been doing it as long as I have. Actually, when you first start doing it, it does sort of make you a little dizzy sometimes. But I do it and it's cool because when I do a show I sweat so much that it always comes off anyway.
BP: Are all the old Boston stories ture -- about you guys knocking beers out of people's hands at shows...
DS: Well, rumours spread and get real built up. We were pretty militant. We would walk up with flashlights and we'd go, "Are you straight?" and shine the light in their eyes and stuff like that, but no one ever beat anyone up and... Well, if there were drunk people in the pit, who were drunk and hitting people and being real stupid, generally we'd kick them -- real hard. It was pretty bad. I mean, I wouldn't do that now, but it wasn't as bad as some people say -- like we killed someone (laughter). It wasn't like that.
BP: To a lot of kids straight edge has grown to encompass vegetarianism. Are you a vegetarian?
DS: No. McDonald's is my favorite restaurant (Uggh!!). I think that vegetarianism, for me, is totally distinct from straight edge. It's cool if you're vegetarian and it's cool if you're straight edge, but I don't think one requires the other. I think it's also a NY thing.
BP: How do you feel about the newer straight edge bands like YOUTH OF TODAY?
DS: I've never seen them. I want to see them.
BP: They're really good.
DS: Their records look like they must be really good. I want to see them, but I'm on the road like eight months a year so I don't really get a chance to see any bands unless we play with them. I'd like to see them; I'd also like to see UNDERDOG. I've never seen any of those bands.
BP: Let's see... DAG NASTY questions. Was DAG NASTY a straight edge band in the beginning? With songs like "Under Your Influence" --
DS: "Under Your Influence" in which they now talk about drinking beer. Yeah, we were a striaght edge band. That's what we stood for and that's what Brian used to stand for and that's what Roger and Colin still do stand for -- as far as I'm aware. That was very important to all of us. Brian now takes acid and does cocaine.
BP: How did you end up in DAG NASTY?
DS: I knew Brian from when I was in DYS and he was in MINOR THREAT and I moved to DC after I broke up with DYS. I was living at my parents' house there and I was roadiing for DAG and they had another singer, the singer for SWIZ, Sean. I roadied for them and he was the singer for like a month or two. And then right before they were supposed to go on tour, I was thinking I was going to be the roadie, (but) they kicked out Sean and asked me to sing. So I did, and I had three days to practice before (we left on tour).
BP: Why did you choose to leave DAG NASTY?
DS: I got a scholarship to go to college. I'm equally as into school as I am into music.
BP: On DAG NASTY's last album, they redid "Under Your Influence". They do it in a sort of mocking way. What do you think about that?
DS: He's a disgusting, selfish child. That's Brian's thing because Brian's hated me ever since I quit the band. I called him up and told him I wanted to go to school, and instead of being happy for me that I had a chance to go to school for free and everything, he was like, "I hope you don't cherish any friendship we ever had. You've ruined my musical career." All this shit! We were really close friends and it just took that to stop the whole thing. He's never really gotten over it and that whole record ("Field Day"), their latest record, it's like he still hates me that intensely and it's just weird to me that anyone could be that obsessed. And Peter's as guilty as any of the other ones cause he always tries to be real nice to me, but he redid those lines about drinking and stuff so... he's as guilty as all of them and they should all go to fucking hell.
BP: That really pissed me off. I wrote off DAG NASTY completely when I heard that... How do you feel about hardcore today? Do you ever get a chance to listen to newer stuff?
DS: I listen to a lot of different stuff. BAD BRAINS' "I Against I" is my favorite record. Actually, Henry Rollins' "Lifetime", I listen to that every day. I like [to] listen to THE CURE and I listen to the BAD BRAINS y'know? What do you do? I don't just listen to hardcore, but I still like it. I like it well done I have to say. It's hard for me to listen to the early (simpler stuff), and I know everyone has to start out and I can relate to it, but it's hard for me to hear it a lot of times. But I go to shows and stuff still. All the time. (At this point we started talking about ALL, but nothing really interesting transpired)
BP: What's it like playing a show where kids just kind of hang out and watch and maybe dance a little (ALL shows) compared to the DYS days where kids would go nuts, dive and sing along?
DS: Kill each other. It's different. It's not less good or less bad. I like it better myself when kids are going crazy. It depends on where you play. We (ALL) played in Chicago last tour and the kids were fucking freaking out and we played Fayetteville, Arkansas this time -- and you wouldn't think there were any kids in Fayetteville, but it's a huge scene and it was really packed and they were all going crazy. It was cool. So it's like you get all kinds of crowds. Last night at the Pyramid in NY it was an older crowd.
BP: Looking back on everything you've done, what would you say was the most memorable experience?
DS: What do you mean? Like a show...
BP: Just anything.
DS: One of the best things is something that still happenes which is kids coming up to me and saying, "I was a drug addict and then I started listening to your band and now I'm not." Stuff like that happens a lot and I'm really into it and I respect them for coming up to me and saying that. That's probably, for me, the most important thing. There's a lot of shows that stand out too, but people are the most imprtant part.
BP: Wasn't "Brotherhood" going to be repressed on TAANG!?
DS: The drummer's not into it. He's like this guy who's into playing in bar bands. He's a nice guy and we're still friends, but he's just not into it. He doesn't like (the record) and he doesn't want to be associated with it. He sent a lawyer's letter that said he was going to sue Curtis (TAANG!) if he put it out. So we couldn't do it.
BP: That's one of my all time favorite records.
DS: Like that right there, what you just said. That's like part of the memorable moments.
BP: It's got so much emotion and feeling in it.
DS: I listen to it now and it's hard to believe my voice is that low. I sound like I'm 6'5".
BP: When I first heard it, I thought you sounded exactly like Choke.
DS: Yeah, all the early Boston bands had this low, gravelly thing going. It was kind of cool. We all sounded really similar and we were into the same thing.
BP: Last question. Mike Gitter said that DYS's last song (ever played live) was a DIO cover...
DS: Oh. We covered, what was the song? What was a big DIO hit? He had a big hit.
BP: I have no idea!
DS: He had some hit. I forgot what it was. We did that (and) it was so bad. It was sooo bad! We were the worst band. We couldn't play it right and we fucked it up and somebody's guitar broke. Yeah, Andy's guitar broke halfway through the song. It was like the worst cover you've ever heard. It was funny. I was doing it as a joke and Jonathan was putting his bass between his legs. It was pretty funny.
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