travels with M.D.C.

from MRR #9, 1983
DAVE: We had been in Canada for about a week and played several cities, each of which has a young, fertile scene. It's great because it's not American oriented or English oriented, but French oriented.

RON: It's more European.

DAVE: In Quebec we played with a great band called the OUTBREAKS. Then we went to Montreal, also a good scene. Everything was going along fine, and we got to Ottawa. People there told us that they were being surveiled by the authorities. They're part of a group called Youth Action for Peace and work with a lot of people in Toronto who are doing support work for all sorts of causes, Vancouver Five, as well as anti-nuclear things. They have an anti-Cruise missle testing organization happening there. They also told us about Bulldozer, which is a magazine that covers prison rights, nuke stuff, etc., and are trying to raise money and consciousness of the Vancouver Five's trial by media.

RON: Trial By Media is the name of the video about this case.

DAVE: So the authorities went out and raided Bulldozer, trying to bust them on anything they could get them on. They charged them with marijuana, and charged one woman who was a midwife for procuring an abortion. Basically, they were being charged because of their legal political activities.

TIM: A time-honored technique.

DAVE: So we started getting a bit paranoid, and after 3 or 4 days left Ottawa for Toronto. We got stopped about halfway there by the police. It was a weird kind of stop -- flashlights in the face, "we're just checking you out" kind of thing.

JEFF: Well, if they had the people you were staying with under surveillance...

DAVE: Sure, they knew there was a connection. We had done a benefit in Ottawa for Youth Action for Peace, so we had become involved -- not just a band floating through. So we got to Toronto, and sat up till about 6 A.M. talking with ARTICLES OF FAITH, and crashed out at around 7, but someone living there saw a City car pull up next to the house and take the garbage bags and put them in the back seat of the car and drive away.

RON: They had the house under surveillance too.

DAVE: So everyone in the house said to get anything possibly illegal out of the house. I then remained at the house, while Ron and Franco left to do errands.

RON: We went over to the Post Office and I mailed some singles to my mother.

FRANK: We had just come out of the Post Office and the van was double-parked on the other side of the street. We hopped in and there was a cop car behind the van. Ron signaled that we were leaving, and the cops waved "okay". As we pulled out, the cops drove along on the righthand side, looks in my window, and says "pull over". So we drive around the corner where he told us. We weren't doing anything wrong, but as soon as we opened the doors to the van, they were inside it looking for something to bust us on. Mike from Winnepeg and Chris were there too, and the cops started going through their pockets.

RON: It was a totally illegal search, as there was no probably cause but in Canada the law now is that they can do anything, stop you day and night, at your house, whatever. So anyway, they found this wristband that some girl gave Frank, a brass rod we use to jack up the car, a big steel bolt from from the beer vats, and the worst thing of all -- a curtain weight from the On Broadway, which is attached to a chain. So they were going "oh, ball and chain!" Then there was a buck knife for cutting vegetables, and they got out my Swiss Army knife, opened up the little blade and felt it. God, unbelievable.

FRANK: So right away they said "these are all dangerous weapons and you guys obviously have dangerous intent to use them." They kept intimating that we had these "weapons" for dangerous purposes, and that's why they busted us. Actually, it's like that baseball bat you have in your corner, Tim. It's an article in your home, and the van's our home.

RON: Then they took us down to the police station, #14 I believe. And while they were fingerprinting me, the cops started singing "Happy Birthday" to me cause it was my birthday. Actually, those cops were okay.

FRANK: It's weird. The cops that busted us, after they did the initial interrogation, came back into the room and started asking us about our political views.

RON: They were asking us what our solutions were to world problems. Obviously they had found our singles in the van, and checked through it. Oh, so after getting our prints, we get back to the station, and there's this skinhead cop who had our buttons, and he holds one up and goes "we're not like those American cops. If we had caught you with these, we would have tied you up, whipped you, and put a bullet through your head." He looked real snarly. And I had "M.D.C." shaved on my head.

DAVE: When I went down later to claim the van back, the whole station house emptied out to give me shit, holding the buttons... and boy was I humble. They said next time we came up here with those buttons, they were gonna finish us off.

RON: Then me and Frank got transfered to the Don jail, the old city jail.

DAVE: So they spent 7 days inside, while Tammy and I had to go to work, trying to call people saying, "hmmm, if you ever liked M.D.C...."

FRANK: I'm telling you, if it weren't for Rough Trade, we'd probably still be in jail. They sent us $1700. It cost $1000 each to get out on bail, plus $1200 for the lawyer. And the YOUNG LIONS and their friends were great.

DAVE: The whole time they were in jail the Crown (the state) was calling the lawyer, saying "these guys are in a political rock group that is anti-social". Then they said it was political, dangerous, and promoted cop killing.

TIM: So what do you face?

FRANK: 4 to 6 months in jail, plus up to a $1000 fine each.

TAMMY: But the search was illegal, even by their laws.

RON: It's scary going back, but we really want to be able to return to Canada in the future.

TIM: Why?

DAVE: They've got some great little scenes there like last year when we found Winnepeg, and now this year Ottawa.

RON: PORCELAIN FOREHEAD, they're great!

DAVE: Humanistic thrash.

TAMMY: Quebec's great!

RON: Speaking of great scenes, Santa Fe (New Mexico) is great.

ALL: Yeah!

RON: JERRY'S KIDZ!

TAMMY: The riot squad came during that show and surrounded the place. The kids were going crazy inside.

RON: They were climbing on the rafters and diving off.

DAVE: The cops were massing outside, but the kids were really tight inside.

FRANK: They (cops) would turn off the electricity, then turn it back on, and we'd still be playing!

DAVE: Al was great, the woman who ran the place kept trying to get him to stop, and he'd just go "aaarghh" and play.

FRANK: We played and played. They eventually closed it down.

DAVE: By the sixth song, they were all on the stage, in full riot gear. By the twelfth song, they were right next to Al.

TAMMY: Then in L.A., at Perkins Palace, the cops, with the help of the club's security people (who directed the cops to M.D.C.), beat up and arrested Al and Ron.

TIM: Well, given all this stuff, do you have any regrets about your one time name?

DAVE: No.

TAMMY: We're thinking of changing the name to KILL LOTS of COPS.

FRANK: BILLIONS of DEAD COPS.

RON: ZILLIONS of DEAD COPS. Z.D.C.

TIM: What did you do to kill time in jail?

Ron: Lift weights.

FRANK: Try to stay out of the Big Guy's way.

RON: We tried to refuse giving him the prunes served at lunch. They make wine out of the prunes. And I said, "man, that's about all I can eat here." We could barely eat anything in there.

FRANK: I told the guy we can't eat meat, and the prunes were all we could eat. And he says, "that's OK, but don't you tell me what to do. If I want your prunes, I'll get prunes."

DAVE: The biggest confirmation of everything is that the police are really just a big shakedown racket, the mafia out to hassle the lower ends of society, the people they can get away with it. The more white middle class with good connections you are, the more left alone you'll be. The more you're at the bottom, a minority, punk, rasta, etc., you're free game.

JEFF: They're really taking advantage of the Vancouver Five situation.

DAVE: Oh yeah, ...someone's blowing up nukes, so let's tap everybody, let's surveil everybody, let's appropriate billions to spy on everyone... 1984.

FRANK: More jobs for the cops.

RON: Plus the local cops are all linked up by computer, they're like the C.I.A.

DAVE: And let's check out every political group that is or ever was, and keep tabs.

RON: The main thing about that whole prison system in Toronto was that the average bail was $500 - $1000, we figured there was about 100 people coming in new every day, and there's six jails, so that's like $600,000 bail money every day. Raking it in!

FRANK: It's a big moneymaking scheme. If you got the money, you get out. If you don't got the money, you get to stay in jail and they get to ask for more money appropriations because they've got so many people in jail. Either way they win.

RON: I'll say one thing, I don't think they're as violent as cops here in the U.S. Up there, they 'facilitated' us into the cells and out, but in Pasadena it was pure violence to the max. That's what they were getting off on.

FRANK: It's a difference in cultures. Up there, they're a little more dignified about it.

TAMMY: More British.

RON: But we talked to one guy who had been beaten up and tortured for 6 hours up there.

DAVE: They put telephone books on your head, and then hit you, so there's no bruises. And there's been a lot of punks who it turns out have been beaten or busted there. They are not friendly or helpful, but suspicious and hostile.

TAMMY: The Toronto Metro Police have the worst reputation.

DAVE: It's weird there. I get the feeling in Canada of "smallness". I mean, there are only a few large cities, and most people live within 50 miles of the U.S. border. There's an uptightness, a fear. I also feel like it's a C.I.A. (controlled) government. I think Canada has a 65% U.S. controlled economy. They've been sold out to the U.S. They've been doing everything from draining the rivers that naturally run to the north to go to the U.S., using Canada for Curise missle testing, or to store their nuclear waste.

RON: The worst thing is they're destroying the culture. The only place it doesn't look like the U.S. is Quebec.

KATHERINE: That's because the Party Queceque, formerly the F.L.Q. (Quebec Liberation Front) is now in power, and wanted the U.S. and English influences out.

DAVE: There's more paranoia in the air.

FRANK: The thing it all showed me was how easy it is for the law and lawmakers to take your freedom away. You just have to be very, very careful if and when you decide to stick your neck out. It also taught me to make use of your last call for your freedom of speech, because you may not have a chance later. It's symptomatic of the paranoia governments are feeling.

TIM: Tell us about some other aspects of this tour, especially the Rock Against Reagan parts.

RON: We got to play 2nd St. and Avenue B in New York.

DAVE: About 300 Puerto Rican residents were having a block party, and we got to play. Franco said a few words in Spanish about what we were about. They were skeptical at first, but they really got into it, weeks later I saw them wearing M.D.C. buttons. And in Washington Square Park, playing to a lot of indiginous people. It made us feel real good that our music could cut across to all types of people, have a good time, and communicate.

TIM: Sum up your feelings overall on the R.A.R. tour.

RON: I think it was a real good endeavor. I think a lot of people put a lot of heartfelt energy into it. I know that a lot of money went into it from some people's pockets. The Yips who contributed to it did so because they felt a need for some alive form of political action.

JEFF: Wasn't there too much emphasis on the legalization of dope?

FRANK I think that the whole pot isue is relevant in that it's one of the personal freedoms, and it is one of the bullshit things that they keep lots of people in jail on.

DAVE: And is used as an excuse to harass communities.

FRANK: It's a way for them to get their hands down you pants.

RON: Plus marijuana gets hassled more than heroin, speed, coke, or P.C.P. The C.I.A. supplied drugs get ignored. We feel that human rights are our lives, our food, and it's more than just smoking a joint.

TIM: We got some complaints that the Yippies (Youth International Party) were making the dope thing priority #1, which was not smart given the type of crowd who came to the shows.

FRANK: It wasn't really made priority #1. It was about human rights, us being on the bill, and CRUCIFUCKS, D.R.I., and the DICKS help reinforce that "hey, what the real priority here is, is the Reagan Administration."

JEFF: I still say that it's a tactical mistake if you're trying to bridge gaps between older rebels and newer rebels.

DAVE: That's one of the timelocks that the Yippies are in.

FRANK: I give the Yips a lot of credit for keeping up the struggle. They've been at it for 15 years.

DAVE: Out of the whole tour, there were only 2 or 3 smoke-ins, all except 2 gigs were free -- no profits to smoke up.

RON: Plus every band had their own stance.

DAVE: It did get ridiculous at one point. I think like July 3, one of the speakers said something like "if everyone in El Salvador smoked pot, wouldn't it be great". (laughter!!!!!) And at one show they had Smokey the Beaver come or something. Then last year there were some problems between hippies and punks. The dialogue broke down. I think FEAR and MINOR THREAT represented the punks, and you had some headstrong Yippies who think everything's Yippie, and everything punk is OK if it can be incorporated into the Yippie, and if it can't, "fuck it". It's a matter of people not communicating. People want to have a good time, celebrate outside in a natural park area, want to have music provided, and they can't decide they have enough in common to make it work pleasantly, so there's a lot of Yippies that hate the punks, and a lot of punks that hate the Yippies. It's like anything you want a relationship with someone that's not exactly like you, you have to bend a little bit. I had to give too, "We're M.D.C., a political band, blah, blah, blah," But a lot of those Yippies have been doing stuff, reporting on abuses of people's lives since I was in second grade. It took me a while, but I have a lot of respect for them.

FRANK: And when it came down to our being in the pinch, one of the Yips came up with the other half ($1400) to get us out of jail. That's when you know what the hell 'solidarity' means. When our lives and freedom were jeopardized, I found out that their hearts were in the right place. I have a lot of respect for what they're doing, and no, I don't agree with every stance they're taking, or all their priorities, but...

DAVE: They have the same problems all organizations have. There's a few people who've really got a lot on the ball, and some people who are just hangin' in and hangin' on. And when everything is donated by free time, you take what you can get. And there were logistical problems. They bought a very expensive sound system, and then expected everyone to do everthing on volunteerism. It just doesn't quite work that way.

TAMMY: Hindsight.

DAVE: But we felt very good about the tour, we got to meet thousands of people, not just punks -- mothers with babies, street people, local artists, Native Indians, a varied cross section who'd never dream of going to a punk club. They actually got confronted -- we helped bridge a gap, so they won't be saying "those crummy punks". Breaking down walls, destroying that media hype of what punk is about.

RON: Plus the Yippies have this real good book out. It's called "Blacklisted News of 1970's". It's got so much information in it.