THE PROLETARIAT
from Maximumrocknroll #9, October 1983
Frank Michaels: guitar
Rick Brown: lead vocals
Peter Bevilacqua
Tom McKnight: drums
INTERVIEW BY SHEENA
Everyone's got the interview blues. "I hate this," groans guitarist Frank Michaels. Added to that the band's looking at an all-night recording session. But when the cassette pops up at the end of side II, we're all surprised. As it turns out, the PROLETARIAT is a band with plenty to say.
It would be hard to collect four more unassuming and likeable people in a room; the Proles act more like a chess team than a band - no attitude, no showing off. It's a discussion more than an interview. If the interview comes off a little humorlessly, it's my fault - I cut out the in-jokes, but don't get the idea the band is a dour organization.
Three years old this month, the PROLETARIAT make music that's aggressive and a little dissonant, reminiscent of early GANG OF FOUR, and coupled with powerful, blunt lyrics. No love songs, lord be praised. Best tracks on their new LP; "Splendid Wars", "Another Banner Raised", and "Torn Curtain" (with snarling lyrics like "Overt activities/Control their lives/Fill their minds/Propagandist lies/Defy objections").
In the interview, we focused on political "climate" and what can be done - let's face it, the PROLETARIAT is not a party band. The crystallization of what the PROLETARIAT are about comes from Frank - they are not so much a band as a unit dedicated to the "public exchange of ideas." How many other bands can make that claim?
MRR: Are you "anti-American"?
F/R: Sure. Yes.
F: It's not that we're specifically anti-American, we're anti a lot of things... But we're not pro-Russia, either. Do you understand the difference? We're talking about political systems, not allegiances. We're not nationalists.
MRR: But what about people who are?
F: ...I can understand some of their points...
R: Like what?
F: There are a lot worse places you could be.
R: Yeah, but that doesn't mean things here couldn't be a lot better!
F: That's my point. What people should realize is that because it is one of the better places to live, that doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with it. And that's our contention, although I can agree with some of their points. The only reason we have so much more is because we've expoloited so many.
MRR: What is wrong? What kinds of things should be changed?
F: Inequities in this country are unbelievable. People are always saying we're communists, but I don't believe that's the solution. I don't know - are you a communist, Tom? Peter? Rick?
R: Yes, I am.
F: I don't agree with it at all. I just don't agree with any political system.
R: Frank, that's because there's never been real communism.
F: That's what every theorist always says. And the reason for that is that there never could be. You're hoping for something that could never happen. I don't think it could.
R: What good does anarchy do, Frank?
F: It couldn't ever happen; what good does it do? Everyone's responsible for themselves, and there's no government control... But it's just as impossible as communism - it can't happen with the way people are.
MRR: Are there any workable governments or regimes?
F: No.
R: No, every government is a matter of degrees...
F: Take the Korean airlines incident, right? It just shows you the difference between Russia and America. Russia has such a major advantage in a situation like that because they control all the public officials. They really don't comment on anything - everyone just refers to the official statement. Whereas in this country, the press has the right to dig into those kind of issues, and I don't think they have as much as I'd like, but it's not like Russia, where there's this incredibly persuassive official statement, that's so well-written it can almost change your thinking, their propaganda is incredible. It's amazing how they can keep their people so uninformed.
MRR: I think it's been as bad here, personally. The headline of Time magazine is "Murder In The Air"...
F: You don't consider it murder?!
MRR: I consider the national coverage of it propaganda as bad as the Russian's.
F: I think the incident was terrible brutality on the part of Russia.
MRR: It was a C.I.A. set-up.
F: Oh, I agree with that - I think there's a distinct possibility that is was a spy plane, either from the Korean C.I.A. or the American C.I.A., but, if that's true, whoever's responsible is just as guilty of murder as Russia might be. But still, nothing's been proven. It was funny, because the filght number was 007, which is kind of like what would be an intelligence 'joke' - but it was a commercial airliner with airforce pilots, which is strange.
MRR: But what would the C.I.A. care? They'd sacrifice anybody?
F: That's the thing - I'm not saying it's not impossible. I'm just saying it hasn't been proven.
MRR: I was just saying that I thought the American response was as badly propagandistic as anything done by the Soviets.
F: But in the case of Russia, they can't even admit the truth - they change the degrees of truth - why can't they just say they shot it down?
R: Oh, it's just the same in the U.S., statements are changed 5 days later.
F: It's true, they're just as bad as each other.
T: On the front page of their paper, covered with news and shit, there's a little box "Plane Downed". Like something you'd read in the obituary column. In the U.S. it covered every newspaper. But the Russians don't care - they're not going to spread around something like that.
F: They don't. Do you really think they keep their people informed?
R: But do you think this country keeps its people any better informed?
F: It's not as bad as Russia.
MRR: There's no way to know how informed or underinformed we are. The day it happened, for example, some jerk is outside a department store selling bumper stickers that say "Kill The Russians..."
P: Everyone where I work is walking around, "we should go over there", "let's shoot down a plane of the Russians".
F: It's exactly what people wanted to do when the hostage crisis happened, remember? "Let's get 59 Iranians and blow their heads off" - the mentality is the same.
MRR: The point is that Americans think they're well informed and they have the whole story; people are given the impression that we all know what's going on - but it's exactly the same in Russia, only we think it's different.
F: No, no. We still have access to a lot more information than the Russian people do about their government.
MRR: Maybe the truth is just as inaccessible, but there's more routes to persue here... What do you think about the conservatism of the public response?
R: That happens every single time a situation like this occurs.
F: It's almost like it's planned - it unifies the country. It's perfect for the government. You get all these people coming out with ideas about spy planes and "Hey, they're just commies".
R: The day after it happened, Reagan just kind of matter-of-factly sent 2000 more Marines to Lebanon, and no one even noticed.
F: They were talking to some Marines who were saying "We wanna go over there and stomp some ass".
R: Yeah, but... suppose there were Lebanese troops stationed here - or any other kind of troop stationed in this country - everyone in the country who had a gun would be shooting at them. Everyone would suddenly be a "rebel".
MRR: This is one of the most conservative times in the recent memory. What about chances for change?
R: Reagan's gonna win again next year, to start with.
F: Definitely - there's the good first year and a half where they totally destroy everything, and then right around the election things pick up, the economy gets a little better, and they get tougher stands - oh, he'll get re-elected for sure.
MRR: Are you discouraged? What are you doing about it?
F: Oh definitely. There is absolutely nothing this band can accomplish politically. We were fairly dogmatic in our beliefs when we first started, and we were naive. I think we've grown up a lot.
MRR: When did you become disillusioned -
F: It was gradual, no certain moment.
MRR: What did you originally think you could accomplish?
F: Oh, we were very idealistic.
P: Our lives were changed by music, and we wanted to do the same for other people.
R: But those people who come to see us already think our way, more or less, or a good percentage do, anyway.
F: I think one of the basic things we can accomplish is just to be in a band and express our views about politics. I think right now in this country that whole idea is frowned upon. People don't want to see anything like that. This is a public exchange of ideas - it's a healthy situation, and that's one of the things we can accomplish.
MRR: It's really nice to interview people who have so many ideas about things. A lot of times you feel like you have to be really low-key and blah about everything or people will tell you to shove it, be cool.
F: Well, that's really ok too. We were just so serious at one point that we were depressed 24 hours a day, and we decided -
EVERYBODY: Whiffle ball!!!
R: The thing is, we do mean what we say, but it's a contradiction too, because you do have to live in this world. We can talk about how bad everything is - intervention in El Salvador, people starving - but we're not there. I do feel hypocritical, but then I look at other people, who aren't even fucking worrying about it, and it's some solace.
MRR: I always feel hypocritical, because you have intense, militant attitudes, and you cannot, realistically act on them. You blow something up, you get put in jail, and nobody ever hears from you again.
F: But, see, we're more dangerous doing what we're doing than someone who just goes to jail. I know we're being watched. A lot of our mail isn't reaching its destination. They're aware of us, and we can accomplish more by doing something long-term, than by one act.
MRR: So, although you're disillusioned, is it still fun?
R: Oh yeah. We have pretty modest goals. Like every day to us is still amazing - we got to play out once, and everything after that has been just gravy. We just want to put a song together and then play that song 15,000 times.
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