WHITE CROSS
Interview by Tim Yohannon from Maximum Rock'n'roll
MIKE: The scene in Richmond has a lot of older people in it. There was a big scene dating back to '77. Most of the scenes we've seen seem to be much younger than ours, even though we have a good many young kids now.
MRR: Why do you think there are still a lot of the older punks still involved there?
MIKE: They're left over from back then. There's an art school in Richmond, and a lot of burned out artists like things to do. There was also a heavy lust for the garage-type thing too. It's a very diverse scene, not just punk.
MRR: What are some of the bands?
MIKE: There's a brand new band called U100. They were originally called LETHAL INJECTION; I wish they had kept that name. Now they've changed it again to SILENT SCREAM. They change the name every two days.
DEWEY: Then there's the PREVARICATORS, which is a mid-tempo band.
MIKE: They're trying to bridge the gap between punk, heavy metal, and rock'n'roll. They're a 'having fun' band.
MARK: There's the BEAKS.
MIKE: They used to be an ear-shattering band, but they've toned it down. They're fun to watch, and I hope they can successfully transfer their sound to vinyl. Their record's good, but... Then there's GRAVEN IMAGE. Their singer is very 'in the know' about current events. I would say they have a slightly political edge. And then there's HONOR ROLE, who are just a 'happy go lucky' thrash band. I don't think they know what direction they want to go in yet.
MRR: How about DEATH PIGGY?
DEWEY: They're getting back together again.
MIKE: We want to get them on the Virginia compilation album. They're incredible live. The singer and bass player are srazy shit. They could definitely become one of the best known bands, if they pushed it.
MRR: You guys do a lot. Besides the band, you've got the label, Zero Degree Records, plus you do booking too, right?
MIKE: Yes, but it was all taking up too much of my time. Now a guy named Mike Thomas does the booking - Major/Minor Productions. There's always a small group of people in every scene that do all the work to keep it going.
DEWEY: He's the Ian of Richmond (laughter).
MRR: And what's Plan 9?
MIKE: That's the record store. They're now doing mail order. They help bands get into town. They did the first DK's show. They've helped the whole Virginia scene a lot.
MRR: Last night we were talking about the state of the punk scene nationwide. How did you describe it?
MIKE: I said it was in absolute shambles.
DEWEY: Money keeps getting in the way.
CRISPY: Somebody's always trying to fuck somebody else over. THey're preaching unity, but...
MIKE: I think part of it is there's so many younger kids in the scene, and a lot of them may not know what they're talking about.
DEWEY: There's a lot of prejudice and cliques.
MRR: Do you think that's an irreversible trend?
DEWEY: It's gonna take work.
CRISPY: No way though--everybody thinks differently.
MIKE: I don't think anarchy can work on a large scale, or that the punk idea can. It's such an open type of thing--everyone is invited in--I don't care if you're on the football team, as long as you're level-headed and open-minded. But people group together, and you get different factions. There's something funny that happened in the Richmond scene that relates to this. One night at a gig, HONOR ROLE started handing out these stickers to people, after calling their names off a list. There were names of people in the scene, and these stickers said "Kicked Out Of The Scene". It turned out that it was just a sarcastic joke on their part, making fun of some firls that had actually kicked this one girl "out of the scene." (laughter)
CRISPY: So everybody got kicked out of the scene, and there was no scene anymore. (more laughter)
MRR: I think it's sort of in a shambles too. It's partly because of the average age level. There's a lot of cliquishness at the junior high school level, because of insecurities, etc.
MIKE: Right, it's a natural thing then. But punk is supposed to be an open-minded thing. But why does the one black or asian guy in the scene have to feel like a 'token'?
MRR: I don't think that's as big a problem out here (S.F.). But do you have any practical way of dealing with these problems?
MIKE: This is probably a bold statement, but if everyone could get as involved as possible, and looked below the surface a bit... It takes more than just showing up for shows.
MARK: All play and no work.
CRISPY: For a lot of kids, punk's just fashionable. Even violence is a part of it for them.
MRR: There's a lot of good people who've gotten fed up with how it's going and have quit, instead of digging in.
MIKE: That's what HÜSKER DÜ says--Don't give up!
MRR: I would say that out here, every year and a half, there's a 90% drop out rate of people who go to shows.
MIKE: Changeover?
MRR: Right. Maybe I'll see 10 people from 2 years ago, maybe 3-4 from five years ago. There's tons of people around who still dress punk, who still consider themselves punks, but who are so disillusioned. I feel a bit down on their cases though, for "abandoning their baby", so to speak. They walked away from it when it got tough. I'd like to see some of them get re-involved.
MIKE: I don't think just shows is a guage of it. There's magazines, rap sessions...
CRISPY: There needs to be some means of education, especially for the newer kids, to understand what it was all about.
MIKE: If more people worked harder, then the bands could be springboards for the whole scene.
CRISPY: We had stickers printed up, but we didn't cut them apart cause we wanted to teach people how to use scissors.
MARK: Lessons in mobile dexterity.
MRR: One of the major differences between this scene and the sixties scene is that back then, within one year of the media getting ahold of it, all the old-timers high-tailed it, the bands all signed to major labels, etc. At least this time there are still some people around who have a perspective on it--from when there wasn't any punk--so they appreciate the history. In that sense we're better off, as well as the strength of all the indie labels, small promoters, independent dstriboturs, fanzines, etc.
MIKE: When I started listening to punk in '77, I was drawn to it because it was so raw--super raw, at least in Richmond. Everyone had a good time. It was a good meeting place--friendship. There was a lot of nihilism, but at least we were doing something.
MRR: A lot of the so-called violence was mock violence, theater...
MIKE: A punk was this wimpy, zit-covered guy who chewed bubblegum and drank beer.
MRR: That's sort of lost on a lot of people who now take it at face value. The theater element of it is almost gone.MIKE: I saw that original DEVO video recently. I had forgotten all about that, how fun it was.
MRR: Yeah, I do wish that more bands would incorporate some aspect of performance into their thing. It takes away a bit from spontaneity and gut-level emotion, but at the same time it makes it unpredictable. That was a cool part of the earlier scene--you didn't know what to expect at a show. There was excitement. Now you know what you're gonna get: four bands in a row--boom, boom, boom, boom--a few fights, people running around incircles, and you go home fucked up.MIKE: We smash out 19 songs in 23 minutes. I feel a little guilty about that.
MRR: Well, there's something to be said for that too though. The power ans excitement of that when it's well done... but there's too much imitation.
MARK: One thing I'd like to see happen is more explanation between songs, since you can't really hear the lyrics at gigs. Or talking about problems in the scene.
MRR: To me, the whole idea of a show should be communication, not just entertainment. There's musical communication, but it would be great if bands cared enough to bring lyric sheets to hand out. It would also be cool if everyone who came to a show brought along their own one page fanzine to hand out, to exchange with everyone else. You'd get a lot more interaction going.
MIKE: I think we communicate a lot with people before and after our sets. We've gotten pretty silent on stage though. There's something to be said for and against that.
MRR: There's lot of different ways of doing it. I'd just like to see more variety. Also, early on in the scene, there was a peer pressure of us all being united against the rest of the world, and punks had a tendency to take care of each other more. Now the peer pressure seems to be to prove how macho you are against other punks.
MIKE: Last night in San Jose, there was some large guy walking around, chest out, pushing people around. His 'dance'was the ol' forearm. There was this other guy who puts out a fanzine (Slumwords) who was going around plastering people. He's a large guy, and I saw him nail some small, 14 year old kid into a tree. One great thing up in Connecticut is they have this thing called B.S.O., I think Better Slam Organization. What they do, they stand around, and if things get out of control, they get 4 or 5 big guys who go in and break it up. In Richmond, as soon as you git the ground, all you gotta do is raise an arm, and you get hauled up.
CRISPY: Unless it's me. (laughter) We'll go through 3 songs, and I'm still laying under about 5 people.
MRR: Any final comments here?
MIKE: Yeah, bands, don't let money rule your life and make you stab your friends in the back!
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